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- mindpuzzle, on 11/30/2008, -7/+25Sad story. There are no words to explain this.
- schrankage, on 12/01/2008, -3/+75Except for "sad story," apparently.
- Narcism, on 12/01/2008, -4/+9Barrel of diggs for you.
- iamthearm, on 12/01/2008, -16/+1Buried for you
- visarya, on 12/01/2008, -10/+2video games violence
tv violence
gun law
parents not keeping guns away from kids
there can be lot more reasons to explain this , but still it will remain a sad story- Destros, on 12/01/2008, -1/+9video game violence??? come on
I'd go with the beatings to explain this one - Soleanthia, on 12/01/2008, -1/+1Why is it always video games that's blamed??? Since the kid is 8, his PARENT had to have bought these terrible (/s) games for him. So put the blame where it needs to be.
- Destros, on 12/01/2008, -1/+9video game violence??? come on
- zip000, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2I'm afraid that the visceral response that gamers (I'm a gamer too) have when video games are blamed for violence may be a bit misplaced. I think that the jury is still out on whether or not violent movies, tv, and games have a real effect on people.
It seems logical that a general desensitization to violence would make violence a more ready option for a person, and while fictional violence would likely be significantly less powerful than real violence, it would probably have some effect - especially to those people who are for whatever reason unusually impressionable.
The blame though, should not be on the games - or at least it shouldn't be the main blame. I think the blame should be on the parents for allowing their kids to have access to violent games, movies, and tv.
Also, do we have any information about this case implying that the kid even played many video games? Video games are an easy target - and they may even have some culpability - but realistically, blaming video games for something like this is ridiculous.
- Jlaugh, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1I used to think that video games have nothing to do with violence and where a good outlet for relieving our natural violent tendencies. But these days I'm not so sure, I think in combination with violence on TV, slasher movies, violent video games actually do contribute to at minimum a general expectance of violence.
Basically junk in, junk out, or monkey see monkey do. - Sharkky, on 12/02/2008, -1/+1Oh c'mon now. Why do you people only see one sided aspects of these ideas? It's always "violence stemmed from violent video games/movies". Why do people always view violence as a negative thing and then leave it at that? There has ALWAYS been violence in man since the beginning. War is a part of history, our present, our future. It's who we are and it shows what we are capable of. Now with that being said, it's important to view violence, maybe not even first hand, but to be made aware of it's existence. Running away and hiding from our problems doesn't solve them. Covering the eyes and ears of our children won't make them less violent people. So why do people always hide from the truth? Why not try this; why not be exposed to violence, see the true evils of the world, and learn from it. You have to see the ugly to appreciate the beauty of life.
- Jlaugh, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1I used to think that video games have nothing to do with violence and where a good outlet for relieving our natural violent tendencies. But these days I'm not so sure, I think in combination with violence on TV, slasher movies, violent video games actually do contribute to at minimum a general expectance of violence.
- andrewlotta, on 12/01/2008, -0/+2"Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued in a Nov. 25 filing that prosecutors wanted the charge dismissed so they could refile it when the boy was older and press the case in adult court."
How is that even legal?
- schrankage, on 12/01/2008, -3/+75Except for "sad story," apparently.
- captainwtf, on 11/30/2008, -36/+27The father had what was coming to him. Poor kid.
- waxoff, on 11/30/2008, -5/+47From an earlier story it sounded like the father was unusually strict, but not necessarily abusive. The kids last spanking was for leaving his homework at school. That doesn't sound like a typical abuse case: spanking vs hitting, punishment vs random beating. I'd like to hear more facts. Either way though, it's a tragic story.
- Narcism, on 12/01/2008, -10/+9a thousand times man? THAT'S UNDER NINE THOUSAND
- kaosethema, on 11/30/2008, -23/+9in a sense, whether the parents were a bit strict or abusive, they set up the situation for themselves.
your kid is representative of who you are.
in a sense, they killed themselves.- TheBadWolf, on 12/01/2008, -7/+9"...your kid is a representative of who you are."
That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. I've never met a single person who was just like their parents. By your logic, we're all just extensions of Adam and Eve's will, and therefore none of us are responsible for what we do. People make their own decisions. - iamthearm, on 12/01/2008, -7/+9Since there is no such thing as Adam and Eve, no. But Kaosethema is right, we are a product of our parents and the way we are raised to a large degree. It's not the only factor but a huge factor.
- Flamekebab, on 12/01/2008, -0/+7I've met plenty of people who very much reflect their parents. I myself often notice traits about myself that I've inherited from my parents. If you've never met anyone who is like their parents then I wonder what kind of hermit-like existence you've been living!
- TheBadWolf, on 12/01/2008, -3/+3Human life obviously started somewhere, no reason not to refer to the progenitors of humanity as Adam and Eve. It's just a turn of phrase anyway, no need to nitpick.
And yes, of course we pick up traits from our parents. But that doesn't mean everything we do is a direct reflection of them, as kaosethema seem to believe. - skintigh, on 12/01/2008, -3/+4Wow, so I guess in your world there is no mental illness or free will.
What's the weather like on your planet? - CrazedLeper, on 12/01/2008, -3/+2You raise an interesting point. I would, however, argue that the parents are influences on a child but the child's choices are, ultimately, his own. Clearly, he was not inclined to obey his father and was very much his own person.
Also...
----------------------------------------
@iamthearm said:
"Since there is no such thing as Adam and Eve..."
Mitochondrial DNA proves that the entire human family descended from a single woman. Prove that her name was not Eve.
- TheBadWolf, on 12/01/2008, -7/+9"...your kid is a representative of who you are."
- schrankage, on 12/01/2008, -13/+3i watched the interrogation video. the kid killed them because they were suffering from gunshot wounds. so there.
- itsthebrod, on 12/01/2008, -0/+9You don't know that at all.
- CrazedLeper, on 12/01/2008, -8/+12If the boy warranted 1,000 spankings by the age of eight (and kept count) the father was doing society a favor. Judging from the grandmothers words, the father was within his rights. The boy is evil. Also, you are an idiot. Please don't ever raise children.
- slaystench, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2Clearly the spankings were working. /sarcasm
You are an idiot, please don't ever raise children. - CrazedLeper, on 12/01/2008, -2/+1@slaystench
"Clearly the spankings were working."
Spankings usually work --just not on evil children.
-------------------------------------------
"You are an idiot, please don't ever raise children."
I already did and he is very well-behaved--both in public and in private...but, then, he isn't inherently evil. - slaystench, on 12/02/2008, -1/+2Spanking this particular child did not work. Surprisingly not all children react the same way. Just because it worked on your kid does not mean it would work for every child.
- CrazedLeper, on 12/02/2008, -2/+1@slaystench said
"Spanking this particular child did not work. Surprisingly not all children react the same way. Just because it worked on your kid does not mean it would work for every child."
Well, duh. If the father didn't spank the child and he killed someone else how could he have argued that he, himself, was not to blame? The best you can do is the best you can do--but you must do it otherwise it's your fault. Spanking *usually* works but free will guarantees that it will eventually prove fruitless.
- slaystench, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2Clearly the spankings were working. /sarcasm
- waxoff, on 11/30/2008, -5/+47From an earlier story it sounded like the father was unusually strict, but not necessarily abusive. The kids last spanking was for leaving his homework at school. That doesn't sound like a typical abuse case: spanking vs hitting, punishment vs random beating. I'd like to hear more facts. Either way though, it's a tragic story.
- Diggopolis, on 11/30/2008, -3/+36This is one odd story and has been mishandled from the start, between the cops screwing up and the media screwing up - it's hard to discern what the facts are in this case. Well maybe in time things will sort themselves out.
- _skin_, on 12/01/2008, -0/+2I really dont see how he did it, But then again... I only know what the TV tells me.
- MixMastaKooz, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1Same here. According to the story, he used a single shot, bolt action rifle and he shot each of them several times! I can see getting the first shot off, but a second? I guess the second guy froze, because after the first shot, he would think he would run or at least move in a way to be a harder target.
- DangerMouse9, on 12/01/2008, -1/+1@MixMastaKooz
They were playing William Tell damn it.
- xGeneric, on 12/01/2008, -0/+2Yeah I saw something on the news last week about the conduct of the Police in the investigation. Interrogating a 8yr kid without a parent or lawyer around? Are they insane? When I was 8, all I cared about was Ninja Turtles, and Nintendo. I'm sure the kid, if he is guilty, knew what he did was wrong, but I seriously doubt he would have understood the importance of his "confession", and the importance of having a Lawyer present.
- _skin_, on 12/01/2008, -0/+2I really dont see how he did it, But then again... I only know what the TV tells me.
- welliwonder, on 11/30/2008, -6/+21Should have stopped at 999?
- Pzycho, on 11/30/2008, -3/+7This is a much more interesting way to play deal or no deal. Unfortunately, the kid already opened the 1000 spank case.
- walrusonion, on 11/30/2008, -3/+16i live in AZ and it's kinda sad the way the media is sensationalizing this out here
- schrankage, on 12/01/2008, -2/+14i live in TX and it's kinda sad the way the media is sensationalizing this out here.
- KoffKoffus, on 12/01/2008, -9/+1I live in Austin and it's kinda sad the way the media is sensationalizing this out here.
- chanop, on 12/01/2008, -1/+30I live in NY, and it's kinda sad that nobody gives a ***** about this out here.
- iamthearm, on 12/01/2008, -9/+1OMG retards everwhere! Digg is infested.
- souljaboytellem, on 12/01/2008, -3/+10i live in FL and it's kinda sad the way the media is sensationalizing this out here.
- d03boy, on 12/01/2008, -4/+7i live in NE and it's kinda sad the way the media is sensationalizing this out here
- d03boy, on 12/01/2008, -4/+7i live in WI and it's kinda sad the way the media is sensationalizing this out here
- Smelltastic, on 12/01/2008, -4/+7I live under a rock on Mars and so this is the first I've heard of this story.
- schrankage, on 12/01/2008, -2/+14i live in TX and it's kinda sad the way the media is sensationalizing this out here.
- BoneStamp, on 11/30/2008, -13/+6Did they ever test his hands to see if he fired the gun?
- esteskid, on 12/01/2008, -1/+16thanks Grissom
- tacojohn48, on 12/01/2008, -3/+1at least he didn't throw out the term "GSR" to try to sound like he knew what he was talking about.
- BoneStamp, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1I couldn't find a report that answers this question... is that a yes?
- esteskid, on 12/01/2008, -1/+16thanks Grissom
- Alphateam, on 12/01/2008, -9/+29We will never really know what happened. I've seen little 8 year old ***** that were ***** and always will be *****. Maybe he was one and his dad had a hard time dealing with it and the kid did need a smack every now and then. On the flip side he dad could have been the ***** that liked to smack his kid around and the kid snapped.
The media will just sensationalize this and get the best ratings they can out of a tragic story. If the did was OK before he won't be ever again. The legal system will make sure of that.- deadapostle, on 12/01/2008, -1/+101000 smacks isn't "every now and then." I do agree that the media and the legal system will ***** this kid up more than his father ever did, but I have a hard time believing that the kid deserved it.
- LocalDocal, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2In the previous submission about this, there had been a small discussion about whether the '1000 smacks' is 1000 spankings or 1000 hits. Logically, in context and realistically, it makes more sense for it to be 1000 hits as opposed to 1000 spankings. If that is the case, then it really is easy to reach '1000 smacks' with a spanking every now and then depending on how many hits you give in a single spanking.
But either way, I honestly doubt the hits were justification for murder. From all accounts I read, the 'smacks' were typically given for various misbehavior (failing to do schoolwork, disrespect, etc); the kid even admitted that he is often in trouble for lying. I'm not going to say whether these were wrongly given or not since I do not have enough information to make that decision.
Nonetheless, I really do see a lot of damning evidence against the kid. Aside from killing the other man (who had no part in his various punishments, as far as I could see), some psychiatrists who tried to investigate his history discovered little evidence of parental abuse.
I'm not going to lay the blame completely on him; he probably did have his reasons for doing what he did. Still, I'm not going to fly off the handle, and assume the blame lies in the other party either. Truth was that both sides probably had a lot to do with this. - captainbethany, on 12/01/2008, -1/+12I really find it hard to believe that the kid counted up 1,000 smacks. Kids exaggerate a lot, and lie a lot. Just my two cents' worth. I agree with most of what you both said, though.
- penguinofspades, on 12/01/2008, -0/+9because there is noooo way an 8year old may have exaggerated the amount of spankings he received. not any less tragic, but i think we are placing a bit too much emphasis on the facts given to us by somebody who thinks he can claim something by saying that "its mine times infinity + 1!"
- Navicerts, on 12/01/2008, -0/+31000 Seems very plausible. Plausible to me anyway but I was a brat.
Every now and then is relative to the household you grew up in. - d03boy, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1don't hit kids at all. it's a psychological thing, not a physical punishment.
- Navicerts, on 12/02/2008, -0/+1@d03boy
Thats a nice theory but I would bet the majority of households in the world hit their kids, and I think a lot of those kids are turning out OK.
You are correct, it is a psychological thing.... When I was a kid I was told something like "you will be punished tomorrow night" so I had that time to think about the upcoming beating. Also, it wasn't just a "spanking" it was a whipping until you cried (and of course having a thick head I always tried not to cry).
In any case I only say this to point out that fact that punishment like this is NOT going to turn kids into killers or make them violent or maladjusted in any way. In fact, it's more common than people who live in a "hands off" household think (I presume). I might go as far to say that a "hands off" household is a change the behavior patterns of our species and will yield unknown results.
- LocalDocal, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2In the previous submission about this, there had been a small discussion about whether the '1000 smacks' is 1000 spankings or 1000 hits. Logically, in context and realistically, it makes more sense for it to be 1000 hits as opposed to 1000 spankings. If that is the case, then it really is easy to reach '1000 smacks' with a spanking every now and then depending on how many hits you give in a single spanking.
- deadapostle, on 12/01/2008, -1/+101000 smacks isn't "every now and then." I do agree that the media and the legal system will ***** this kid up more than his father ever did, but I have a hard time believing that the kid deserved it.
- deadapostle, on 12/01/2008, -17/+5I wish they wouldn't keep calling him a killer. He's a kid.
- BoSuu, on 12/01/2008, -1/+29That killed... .
- goingtohell2008, on 12/01/2008, -2/+1Just because he killed 2 people doesn't make him a killer... ummm.. does it?
- souljaboytellem, on 12/01/2008, -3/+15Well, when you kill people....that kinda makes you a killer
- itsthebrod, on 12/01/2008, -0/+8It's pretty bad when you have to have an explanation from soulja boy.
- souljaboytellem, on 12/01/2008, -0/+3Really?
- fantasmacanino, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2Now killer was born to a three-legged bitch of a mother. He was always ashamed of this, man. And then right after that he's adopted by this man, Tito Liebowitz he's a small time gun runner and a rotweiler fight promoter. So he puts killer into training. They see killer's good. He is damn good.
- cdahlkvist, on 12/01/2008, -4/+2If he's old enough to decide to kill someone then he is old enough to be labeled a killer - and old enough to decide between lethal injection or hanging.
"Police reports say the boy told a state Child Protective Services worker that his 1,000th spanking would be his last."
And my response is that his first execution will be his last.- tehbored, on 12/01/2008, -2/+3Dude, you want to impose capital punishment on a ***** 8-year-old. What the ***** man? I know he's a murderer and stuff but still, he's ***** 8. That's seriously ***** up.
- cdahlkvist, on 12/02/2008, -1/+2And he knew full well what he was doing. In fact, according to his own words, he knew that and he had premeditated it. Sorry, doesn't sound like an 8 year old to me. It sounds like someone with a violence issue and their solution is murder. Who will he kill next?
If someone starts killing at 8 they can't be fixed.
Think of Gein, Dahmer, Bundy, the list goes on. These are people that started killing at a young age (sure, they started with animals and started on humans later). Sociopathic behavior starts at a very young age and it has been consistently shown that it cannot be fixed or changed.
Do you suggest we just lock him up, throw away the key and foot the bill for ineffective behaviour modification for the next 70 years?
The point being, we get rid of these people before they can do any more damage.
We have a population explosion problem, we have a crime problem and we have prisons that don't work (they only make bad people worse). It's time to clean up the problem.
- BoSuu, on 12/01/2008, -1/+29That killed... .
- look4alec, on 12/01/2008, -9/+2I would hope they would offer him a deal! He certainly can't go to trial as an adult.
- Memnochxx, on 12/01/2008, -1/+9Sure he can. Says so right in the article.
- tacojohn48, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2Lets warm up old sparky for him.
- Murdats, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2why not? this kid needs to be removed from society, when he feels its ok to kill two people because he was throwing a tantrum that is a sign of a severe sociopath, in society this kid will cause much harm, in jail he can only harm himself and his inmates and maybe learn that when you screw people you will end up getting stabbed (or he will kill others in jail and stay there for even longer, either way is good)
- Memnochxx, on 12/01/2008, -1/+9Sure he can. Says so right in the article.
- shadowspawn, on 12/01/2008, -5/+49Jeez. I don't know. Every time I take away my kids DS or ground him from the Wii when he forgets his homework at school he seems devastated, and knows what he did wrong and doesn't repeat it. I don't hit him, there's no reason for it. When they are really young yes a spank on the butt or tap on the wrist works because it's for their safety when they keep on reaching for things that can hurt them. There is no reasoning, there's only cause and effect. Heck a water bottle would work most times instead of physical hitting.
But we're talking 8 years old. I remember being in 3rd grade. Everything means so much. I hit means quite a bit, and that's why I don't hit. The DS or Wii or star wars toys, or a room grounding is usually more than enough in my eyes.
Grounding. Hrmph. I can't imagine locking away an 8yo. I can't imagine one actually understanding the concept of "death" as we do. I can't see an 8yo understanding that he was the cause of two people's lives ending, let alone what "life" means.
His mind has to be really all ***** up right now, and the worst part, for the rest of his life. Makes me sad that this wasn't caught by a teacher or friend's parents. It really does.- georgemason01, on 12/01/2008, -9/+9"Every time I take away my kids DS or ground him from the Wii when he forgets his homework at school he seems devastated, and knows what he did wrong and doesn't repeat it."
I see a contradiction here. Maybe this strategy isn't working as well as you think it is. - paigeinphilly, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1and what did that "spanking" look like?
a belt? a hand? a shoe?..hanger?...tree switches?...what was the frequency?..every day?...a few times a day?..the reasons for the "spankings"?...not cleaning your room...or brushing your teeth?...how bout the duration? 15 min?..30 min?...the list could go on and on...
so many details are being left out.
- georgemason01, on 12/01/2008, -9/+9"Every time I take away my kids DS or ground him from the Wii when he forgets his homework at school he seems devastated, and knows what he did wrong and doesn't repeat it."
- Zippo, on 12/01/2008, -5/+15Man, what a ***** up kid... Shooting someone was the last thing my mind at 8-years-old - let alone my own father.
- stormofswords, on 12/01/2008, -0/+13How about deliberately pumping multiple rounds into both bodies with a slow firing, single shot, bolt action rifle?
- BoonTobias, on 12/01/2008, -5/+4i'm assuming you didn't get hit over 900 times by the time you were 8
- cdahlkvist, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1I'm pretty sure I did and it didn't push me to murder my father. Some of it I deserved. Some of it I didn't.
From the sound of it, this kid deserved being spanked and he even admitted so. - ikkyixo, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1I've been hit over 900 times by the time I was 8 homie and yet, the thought of shooting my mother has never and will never cross my mind. If I left my homework at school, I would have my ass whipped. No I didn't like it but now that I'm way older, I actually thank my mom for doing so.
- vade79, on 12/01/2008, -2/+1Getting hit every ~3 days from birth up to age 8 huh, sounds pretty uncommon...i'm calling ***** ^
- adougherty, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1I can say I certainly wasn't hit over 900 times by the time I was 8, and I'm not afraid to admit that I fantasized about my parent's death at that age, as well as many others. Yeah, I was a ***** up kid.
So, perhaps there was more to it than just spankings? For one what was the kid getting hit with? For another, what other kind of abuses happened? An 8 year old does not get to this point with out something being seriously wrong, and it wasn't the kid.
- cdahlkvist, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1I'm pretty sure I did and it didn't push me to murder my father. Some of it I deserved. Some of it I didn't.
- rabidbob, on 12/01/2008, -0/+4When you're abused as a child, yes, you are ***** up. In some cases it takes a long, long, long time to ***** yourself, if you ever manage it. Most don't. Out of all of the kids who were in the foster home with me I only know of one other who has a moderately normal life.
- paigeinphilly, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1well its good to know that you werent abused....id be willing to bet that those "apankings" were probably very different from what i was used to ...or maybe even you..who knows what else was involved with the "spankings".
abuse can make an adult...let alone an child take drastic measures...especially if they dont see any other escape. - TheMachine1, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1Plus your dad did not buy you a 22 rifle when you were 8. I think I was 13 before I bought a BB gun.
- kangy3213, on 12/01/2008, -9/+4crack deal?
- backslashdigg, on 12/01/2008, -6/+2"In Arizona, those convicted as juveniles can only be held until they turn 18. The law allows prosecutions of juveniles age 8 and above as adults."
I'm thinking that's a typo, should be 18 and above? Unless they think of 8 year olds as adults.- okyourturn, on 12/01/2008, -2/+10No, it's not a typo. ***** up, eh?
- gregbrown54, on 12/01/2008, -1/+1Good idea.... but NOT my home..
- 83457, on 12/01/2008, -0/+4If it was 18 then the word "juveniles" wouldn't make much sense now would it. They have set a cutoff of 8 year old for kids to be tried as adults. I think each state is different... I believe some have cutoffs around 12 years old for example.
- rootsm3, on 12/01/2008, -20/+11This is just a baby dammit. There's no deal to be made. Get that child some ***** help and put him in a loving home.
- Scrappy1850, on 12/01/2008, -5/+10he WAS in a loving home. this is why we cant have nice things
- itsthebrod, on 12/01/2008, -6/+11I'm sorry, but a "baby" doesn't kill two adults with a rifle. Stop coddling the little *****.
- Grazfather, on 12/01/2008, -2/+6 As long as it's not MY home.
- Murdats, on 12/01/2008, -3/+2baby? most people by 8 have learnt what sex is, 8 year olds often get into school fights, 8 isn't as young as you seem to think it is.
- LANopticx, on 12/01/2008, -30/+3He was an Atheist.
- Stroggoth, on 12/01/2008, -5/+13If by atheist you mean Christian, then yes.
- CrudOMatic, on 12/02/2008, -0/+1"""He was an Atheist"""
Goddamn, when I didn't think your ass could get any stupider. WHERE THE ***** does it say that the boy is an Atheist? WHERE does it even mention his religion?
Just like most other Christians you are quick to assume. Hair trigger. Explains your premature ejaculation problem.
How 'bout this Jesus boy:
Atheists represent 16% of America's population
Christians represent ~80% of America's population
However, ~98% of Prison inmates are some sort of Christian, and LESS THAN 1% are ATHEISTS!!!!!!
With your logic, of accusing ANY criminal of being an Atheist, it should be 16% of the prison population that is Atheist, without a single free one. But it's not - plus Christians are the ones filling up the jails!
That "Get Out of Hell Free" card called repentance sure is nice, huh? Let's you get away with any unspeakable act and just "Apologize" for it later.
Don't make me puke, *****.
- magneteye, on 12/01/2008, -2/+13I really think there is much more to this than anyone knows or is letting on. I doubt it is as black and white as he grabbed a gun and shot and killed those two men. It just doesn't seem fully feasible. There is more to this. Someone is hiding something.
- Waterrat, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2 I agree weith you that this is more than just spankings...And why did he also kill the father's friend I wonder?
Hummmmm. - Murdats, on 12/01/2008, -0/+2do you know what a sociopath is? it is someone who is incapable for forming empathic connections, basically they are the centre of the universe and everyone else are little more then objects to be dealt with as they see fit, whether to use or abuse. it is entirely possible this kid is a dangerous sociopath he decided he was sick of his dad and wanted to 'throw him out'
that or he could be seriously psychotic.
- Waterrat, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2 I agree weith you that this is more than just spankings...And why did he also kill the father's friend I wonder?
- killacamry, on 12/01/2008, -0/+3this is going to make for a interesting story when the boy gets older
- compuclean, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2What, like, "Okay, sit down kids, let me tell you about when your daddy killed your grandad..... sitting comfortably? So I was about your age........"
- LexMortis, on 12/01/2008, -5/+19"In Arizona, those convicted as juveniles can only be held until they turn 18. The law allows prosecutions of juveniles age 8 and above as adults."
Whoa, thats ***** up.- MonkeyOverlord, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2Why's that ***** up in cases like this?
Do you know how small a .22 caliber rifle round is? It would literally take about 10 shots to the chest with one to guarantee that your opponent is dead. They're so small compared to even low caliber handgun ammunition (which is already small compared to most real rifle rounds) that you very well might survive a headshot if you got to the hospital quickly.
Do you realize how much malice went into loading a .22 caliber **single shot** rifle and firing it enough times to kill TWO grown men?
Enough to make this kid a likely candidate for being a future violent criminal who'll probably end up murdering people.- humanjhawkins, on 12/01/2008, -0/+0It depends. This was a bolt action rifle. This probably means it was either a target rifle or a small game (varment) rifle. Either would have a 22 inch barrel. This would maximize the potential of that little shell (i.e. it would be at least twice as deadly as a .22 fired from a pistol)
And trust me. You don't want to get shot in the head or the heart with a .22. Yes, if you are going to get shot with something a .22 is preferable to a magnum, but you are at least 50% likely to die anyway.
By the way, the M-16s the U.S. military uses are the same caliber (bullets are .22 inches in diameter), though backed by a lot more powder.
- humanjhawkins, on 12/01/2008, -0/+0It depends. This was a bolt action rifle. This probably means it was either a target rifle or a small game (varment) rifle. Either would have a 22 inch barrel. This would maximize the potential of that little shell (i.e. it would be at least twice as deadly as a .22 fired from a pistol)
- haikuFU, on 12/01/2008, -0/+2Monkey--
Are you joking? I don't care how the 8 year old was brought up, he's 8. 8 year olds don't have the life experience to completely know right from wrong. In an 8 year old's mind, anything could be considered "right" to avoid perceived abuse, which includes shooting someone.
Thinking back to when I was 8 (25 years ago), I used to be bullied almost every day by two older kids at lunch on the playground. I tried hiding in the school during recess, but the teachers forced me outside, which always resulted in me getting beaten up. So, I stabbed one of the guys with a pencil. It went through his hand and broke off. I can tell you right now that I knew in normal circumstances, stabbing was wrong. But, being 8, I very easily justified doing anything to hurt these kids that were making my mere existence miserable.
- MonkeyOverlord, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2Why's that ***** up in cases like this?
- CosmoLoss, on 12/01/2008, -2/+208 Year Old Kid Offered Deal - Zapdos, Venusaur and Japanese Dragonite for your 1st Edition Charizard
On a serious note though, sad story. The kid desperately needs help from here on out. - nanapat, on 12/01/2008, -3/+4When they offer a deal it means they have a weak case which makes me happy for this child.. I'm less than thrilled at the way they "questioned" this child who I'm sure was intimidated by these cops.. It would be good for this child to be in consultation with a professional child psychologist to see what really happened before, during and after this crime that he is accused of..
- alexwebster171, on 12/01/2008, -11/+3Yes, it's messed up. Both the parenting and 8 year old killer are insane. However, if there wasn't a gun available to the kid, he would have found it much more difficult to kill his father and maybe this could have been worked out slightly less violently.
Goddamn USA and your ***** gun laws. Kids getting shot up in schools...I can't hear about it anymore.- hokie47, on 12/01/2008, -3/+8The gun laws are fine. When you are a parent you should lock up your gun. I don't have any kids right now so my wife and I keep a loaded shotgun near the bedroom, but as soon as we have a kid or if any kid comes over we will lock that gun right up. See in the US we don't take away freedoms from others just because a few idiots do not know how to use those freedoms. Sure there are more deaths but that is the fault of the individual not the whole.
- StephanCom, on 12/03/2008, -0/+1That's an interesting thought. If I left a gun unlocked in my home, and an 8 year old took it and shot someone, I'd probably get sued or worse - it would be seen as my fault. I'd say there's no murder, it's the fault of the victim (it was his gun, right?) for leaving a gun where a child could get at it. Just as if he had dropped it and it went off and killed him, or a dog stepped on the trigger - an accident.
But, yeah, this kid seriously is going to need some help.
- StephanCom, on 12/03/2008, -0/+1That's an interesting thought. If I left a gun unlocked in my home, and an 8 year old took it and shot someone, I'd probably get sued or worse - it would be seen as my fault. I'd say there's no murder, it's the fault of the victim (it was his gun, right?) for leaving a gun where a child could get at it. Just as if he had dropped it and it went off and killed him, or a dog stepped on the trigger - an accident.
- itsthebrod, on 12/01/2008, -4/+4The gun laws are fine and wouldn't have prevented this situation in any possible way. It was the parents fault for letting their guns be accessible to this psycho kid.
- jimmies, on 12/01/2008, -4/+4Right, because school shootings *ONLY* happen in the United States.
Dumbass.- Murdats, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Nota ...
49 in american compared to 31 in in the rest of the world, do you know what over representation is? just because it happens elsewhere does not mean that it is not a problem at all and is perfectly acceptable. - jimmies, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2@Murdats - and exactly where did I condone *any* school shooting, regardless of location?
- Murdats, on 12/01/2008, -2/+1whoever said you condoned anything? but what was your response to someone pointing out a problem america has? "but it doesn't just happen here" followed up by a childish insult.
I was pointing out that even if it doesn't just happen in america doesn't mean it isn't a problem for america as your attitude seems to imply.
basically next time you try and formulate an argument, don't, and if you must, please try and make it a rational one. - jimmies, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2I didn't imply *****. Nor did I claim that shootings don't happen here. You're quoting things I never said (with quotation marks too, nice touch, asshat) and reading more than what I've written. Get off your high horse, you might fall and hurt yourself.
The OP implied with this statement "Goddamn USA and your ***** gun laws. Kids getting shot up in schools" that shootings only happen in the USA because of our gun laws, and that they don't happen in other countries because of their gun laws. Totally reprehensible and a driveby weaksauce insult.
- Murdats, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Nota ...
- hokie47, on 12/01/2008, -3/+8The gun laws are fine. When you are a parent you should lock up your gun. I don't have any kids right now so my wife and I keep a loaded shotgun near the bedroom, but as soon as we have a kid or if any kid comes over we will lock that gun right up. See in the US we don't take away freedoms from others just because a few idiots do not know how to use those freedoms. Sure there are more deaths but that is the fault of the individual not the whole.
- Adelhas, on 12/01/2008, -7/+10Inexcusable. The mere idea that someone thinks a 8 year old should be tried as an adult makes me very angry.
- skintigh, on 12/01/2008, -1/+3The US legal system long ago became a system of punishment and revenge rather than a system of reason, logic or rehabilitation. We are the only country on Earth to sentence children to life in prison (I believe China stopped) and we were one of three on Earth to execute children and the retarded before the supreme court got involved (and Iraq was overthrown, eliminating another country that did that.)
- Totz83, on 12/01/2008, -2/+4Most adults who murder have the brain capacity of a teen or child, does it make you angry when they are tried as competent adults? The fact is the kid knew what he was doing, knew it was wrong and even planned the thing, regardless of his age he was able to carry out the murders and should be made to face the consequences of such. And by consequences I don't necessarily mean incarcerated (coz that doesn't help many people) I mean monitored, assessed and helped
- scot333, on 12/01/2008, -1/+11I'll give you a playstation 3 and kool-aid if you plead guilty.
- TrindMyst, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1The whole story just shows the state of our society from the act, to the mishandling of the law enforcement agencies as well as the media bias placed upon it. The only certain thing in my mind is that the child is going to be screwed up for the rest of his life either way. It is just too sad...
- Popinfreshness, on 12/01/2008, -7/+0in before pedobear ascii
- BigglesPiP, on 12/01/2008, -1/+4My 1st thought was "Why are they 'bargaining' with an 8 year old, he can't possibly that responsible for his future." They are in fact bargaining with the kids lawyers. Misleading title.
- Gunsdead, on 12/01/2008, -0/+20Released to spend Thanksgiving with his Mother. Awkward.
- Nettegen, on 12/01/2008, -4/+17"Mom, can you please pass the pie?"
"You've had enough pie son."
"Bitch, I'm looking at multiple counts of 10 1/2 to 25 running CONSECUTIVELY. Now pass me the ***** pie AND that busted ass Cool Whip you bought instead of making fresh whipped cream or I'm going to go get the squirel rifle and take away the one thing you REALLY should be thankful for."
"..."
"Yams also, please."- corr1756, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2dugg up for "Bitch," the rest was just icing on the cake.
- Nettegen, on 12/01/2008, -4/+17"Mom, can you please pass the pie?"
- shaelen, on 12/01/2008, -12/+3What's with this 1,000 smacks thing?
One smack is enough to warrant a good killing.
If you can't control the mind of your kid with words or intellect, your stupid-ass hand needs a good killing.
Darwin rules again.- Snokage, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2have fun being a parent. oh by the way, go get in an accident and die.
- rabidbob, on 12/01/2008, -0/+2As a victim of abuse I don't agree that a single smack is grounds for killing, or accusations of child abuse. It CAN be if it's overly vicious or with an implement (electrical cabling, cane, etc), but not necessarily. However if a child has been hit 1000 times by the time they're 8 then something is very, very wrong.
- thefloss, on 12/01/2008, -12/+4Just another example of the price America continues to pay for its gun culture.
- jojopumpkin, on 12/01/2008, -6/+5Just another example of someone who may not understand their Constitutional right and the reason they have it!
- zibox, on 12/01/2008, -5/+3dude grow a brain. the right to bear arms does not have the same applicability as they had before.
- thefloss, on 12/02/2008, -1/+0Just another example of someone who thinks everyone on Digg is American.
- jojopumpkin, on 12/02/2008, -0/+1You have no gun rights in Ireland? Is that correct? No wonder you guys let the EU take over so quietly.
- jojopumpkin, on 12/01/2008, -6/+5Just another example of someone who may not understand their Constitutional right and the reason they have it!
- smokeymcdank, on 12/01/2008, -5/+2I *heart* dangling modifiers!
- hasslinthehoff, on 12/01/2008, -0/+4Disturbing and sad case. And one more example of how you should keep the guns locked away and out of the reach of children, no matter how much you think they are mature enough to use them.
- mkmega, on 12/01/2008, -4/+4I can't see an eight year old committing this crime. Shooting two full grown men with a single-shot bolt action .22? You have to be a pretty good shot to kill an adult with such a small round, reload, and then kill another full grown man. They must have been asleep and tied down.
Furthermore, the whole "1,000 spanking" ***** is just that - *****. What 2nd to 3rd grader is able to think that way - even if they are crazy?
I call shenanigans.- corr1756, on 12/01/2008, -4/+2i'll give you the shooting bit, its crazy he got two shots off like that.
But the 1000 spankings ***** is easy, I was doing stuff like that when I was 6 when my parents took my N64 away.
Course I didn't end up shooting them, I just pissed in their *****.- Waterrat, on 12/01/2008, -0/+4 Pissed in their *****?
- MeatPlow, on 12/02/2008, -0/+1hmm..
- Waterrat, on 12/01/2008, -0/+4 Pissed in their *****?
- nesstheking1, on 12/01/2008, -1/+4Both men were shot several times, so it was more than the 2 shots.
Lock that little ***** up forever.
- corr1756, on 12/01/2008, -4/+2i'll give you the shooting bit, its crazy he got two shots off like that.
- Kitakaze, on 12/01/2008, -4/+8An 8 year old "snapping" involves throwing a tantrum, screaming, possibly breaking things, and even hitting people. It does not involve keeping track of every time he gets spanked, and then in cold predetermination, executing your father (and another man, for no reason that has been explained).
That's not "snapping;" that's a little Jeffrey Dahmer in training — and quite ahead of the curve.
Some people are simply evil. Sadly, that even goes for children.- rabidbob, on 12/01/2008, -5/+2Children learn from those who are closest to them.
- Murdats, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2children can also suffer from a large range of mental illnesses or deficits.
- shadowspawn, on 12/01/2008, -1/+3Some kids are really smart. That's the problem sometimes. When they are *really* smart, it means they can be really good, or really bad.
I understand your point of view. But he had to learn how to fire a gun somehow. He was probably around adults more than kids his own age, minds above his level without proper priming, and learned buffering and comprehension skills for the input of information he was exposed to.
So he could have been forced to grow up around emotions above his level, skills his level, by nobody's fault but chance and fate. In the real world, he was above his level when compared to other minds his same growth age. Better mechanical understanding, more intense and diverse character exposure, more used to the flood of information and constant barrage of emotions... more than most children in his age group.
But without the experience and skills to cope with situations outside of what most call normal.
Children are also like sponges. They remember everything, as you, I, and everyone else here did. But they don't have the concept of right and wrong like we do, because they haven't been exposed to everything that we have. - Waterrat, on 12/01/2008, -1/+3 Don't know about evil,I do think that he is potentially a danger to society.
- rabidbob, on 12/01/2008, -5/+2Children learn from those who are closest to them.
- shayne8181, on 12/01/2008, -13/+2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _________
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: : : : : : :¯’’~~~~~~’’’ : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : | : : : : : : : : : - jojopumpkin, on 12/01/2008, -4/+4It is terrible what is happening to this child. What I think is going on is the drawing of our attention to gun crimes. Sensationalizing, exploiting and bombarding us with the "terrible" things that happen with guns.
Stuff like this happens more often that you'd think. The media is just bringing this stuff up to the "front page" for what seems to be a build up to the near future of a fresh line of questioning our right as Americans to own guns. - Totz83, on 12/01/2008, -2/+1Kudos to the kid for been able to keep track of how many spankings he'd recieved
- zibox, on 12/01/2008, -3/+1guns don't kill people...drrr
- okyourturn, on 12/01/2008, -0/+7...people with mustaches kill people.
- MeatPlow, on 12/02/2008, -0/+2...husbands who come home early kill people.
- weslen1, on 12/01/2008, -1/+7I don't know if this little boy actually killed his father and the friend or not, but I do know that in the video I saw, in the beginning he was clearly stating he DID NOT. He said he came home from school and found them bleeding. Then about the middle of the video, the 2 female officers who are questioning him turn off the sound. The sound is off for 1 minute or longer and when the sound comes back on, he is now claiming he DID shoot his dad, that he did it because his dad was "suffering". I would definitely want to know what those officers said to him, or threatened him with, to get him to change his story so drastically between the time he denied shooting his dad and the turn around when the sound was restored AND where the "suffering" explanation really came from. I HOPE this little boy has some really GOOD representation before they implement this "DEAL".
- skintigh, on 12/01/2008, -3/+5OK, I've been ignoring this case, but I just read the story. He shot them multiple times with a bolt-action .22? An 8-year-old not only knew how to use a bolt-action rifle, but was strong enough to lift and aim it and fast enough at ejecting the shell and reloading it to get off multiple rounds into two adults before they could take it away from him? WTF?
Wonder if he went to an NRA camp or something.- nesstheking1, on 12/01/2008, -1/+3Helicopter hunting with Sarah Palin.
- rharris, on 12/01/2008, -2/+2My 9-year-old daughter is a pretty good shot with a .22 caliber pistol. When she's older and has her concealed carry permit, I pity the fool that thinks she's an easy mark for a mugging or raping.
- steel66, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1"My 9-year-old daughter is a pretty good shot with a .22 caliber pistol. When she's older and has her concealed carry permit, I pity the fool that thinks she's an easy mark for a mugging or raping"
Paranoid much? 9 year old with a gun, thats some great parenting right there. Why not self-defence like ju jitsu?- Acqua206, on 12/02/2008, -0/+1Okay, I don't care if you have a 9th degree black belt in some sort of godly martial art, if you're a 9 year old girl and I really wanted to for some reason, I would utterly destroy you. A nine year old boys punch/kick would have no effect on me or most of the readers here I imagine.
Whats wrong with taking your little girl to target practice? Its fun, a .22 pistol has little to no recoil depending on the model. I can shoot them suckers with one hand for the whole day. Its great fun and some nice bonding. Its not like he gave her a gun and told her to go play outside. Nothing wrong with a kid learning to respect and having some fun with guns under parental supervision.
I also see nothing wrong with a women packing some heat, and she will be a woman when she carries CCW because the age is usually 21 to be carrying concealed, if her state allows.
- Acqua206, on 12/02/2008, -0/+1Okay, I don't care if you have a 9th degree black belt in some sort of godly martial art, if you're a 9 year old girl and I really wanted to for some reason, I would utterly destroy you. A nine year old boys punch/kick would have no effect on me or most of the readers here I imagine.
- jadenton, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2Produce physical evidence or it didn't happen.
The cops interrogated this kid until he told them what they wanted to hear. Until there is physical evidence there is no reason to believe they're is any truth in it. - corr1756, on 12/01/2008, -8/+0I liked the first Digg of this story better.
It was funnier.
Y'all need to lighten up, the kid gets serious props for commitment and following through. And if he did shoot them, nice shooting too. - wakananda, on 12/01/2008, -4/+5There is no way - just NO way - that this child was not responding to some truly horrific abuse. If your mental representation of the universe is divided into "good" and "evil," and you don't have much experience with abuse, trauma or post-traumatic stress disorder, and you are uncomfortable with your own propensity for abusive behavior (that includes verbal attacks, sarcasm, and sexualized humiliation as well as striking children in anger, or screaming at them), it's understandable that you may feel perfectly comfortable calling this child "evil" and flushing it down the prison toilet.
That doesn't make you any less of a *****, however: just an *ignorant* *****.- paigeinphilly, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1Exactly....all the reports keep describing what this kid did....but what the hell did the parent do to trigger this kid into taking such drastic measures??..I work with kids for a living...esp the trauma cases...and something must had been going on for this to happen...i.e ABUSE.
but NO one is talking about that.
- paigeinphilly, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1Exactly....all the reports keep describing what this kid did....but what the hell did the parent do to trigger this kid into taking such drastic measures??..I work with kids for a living...esp the trauma cases...and something must had been going on for this to happen...i.e ABUSE.
- KittensRunAmok, on 12/01/2008, -4/+6It amazes me how quick we are to excuse the kid for committing premeditated murder. His actions were cold and calculated.
- CatsAreGods, on 12/01/2008, -1/+1So, you believe the police and prosecutor because...?
His mother had just visited that weekend. How do we know she didn't train the kid to do it...or even did it herself and told the kid how to lie about it? - paigeinphilly, on 12/01/2008, -0/+1We dont even know if the kid was subjected to trauma...i.e abuse from the parent..his friend...whomever...
again, as i stated previously..no one is talking about that...almost like its being hidden.
- CatsAreGods, on 12/01/2008, -1/+1So, you believe the police and prosecutor because...?
- blankypoo, on 12/01/2008, -3/+5Step 1: Find orphan, train in Martial Arts, Marksmanship and Contract Killing
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit!- LonesomeFighter, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2you would want someone mentally stable and who wouldn't snap. this kid seems to have snapped
- Rizzen, on 12/01/2008, -1/+1Hey, to make an omelette you have to break a few psyches.
- LonesomeFighter, on 12/01/2008, -1/+2you would want someone mentally stable and who wouldn't snap. this kid seems to have snapped
- AbsurdWreckage, on 12/01/2008, -3/+5Didn't even know it was possible to charge someone who is 8 years old...
...oh right, it's America *face palm*. - laizzesfaire, on 12/01/2008, -1/+1If he gets off, I don't think anyone is going to challenge him for who gets in line first for the cafeteria or who gets dibs on going first in kickball
-
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