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- jggube, on 10/30/2008, -1/+22I've always wanted to try ExpressionEngine - just to see how it fares with WordPress or Drupal. I know a couple of excellent sites that use it (like Veerle's Blog). Anyone got any experience with EE?
- collution, on 10/30/2008, -0/+9Yea. From a coders perspective, it's much... much easier to work with. I would say wordpress has a leg up on it however when it comes to a client's perspective. Wordpress just has a more extensive admin panel (and obviously a larger community) in my opinion, but that's about it. I found EE much easier to learn as well; or at least you catch on quicker.
As a side note, CodeIgniter (from makers of EE) is really good. I prefer it over CakePHP that's if, you're into using PHP frameworks. - HigherLogic, on 10/30/2008, -0/+8EE is definitely a "developer's" CMS, but you can customize it in such a way to make it very easy for clients if you use the API to interact with the core engine.
There's a lot of flexibility built in to it, and it's really easy to transition to, especially if you're familiar with CodeIgniter, which is a really good MVC framework.
If you haven't played around with EE or CI, I would suggest giving it a try. EE 2.0 is supposed to be coming out soon, and that will be fully compatible with CI, so we'll be able to use all of the plugins/extensions/features that have been made for CI in EE.
I prefer CI over other PHP MVC frameworks as well, it's very lightweight and faster than other popular frameworks (like Cake or Symfony), and picking it up is easy because you're not bogged down with trying to learn a new "language" like the other frameworks seem to require.- rosepleasure, on 10/30/2008, -1/+4Thank you. I have to give it a try.
- fr34k5h0w, on 10/30/2008, -3/+1If you've never done MVC before, it will take a little bit to catch on to the concept. But once you do you'll never be able to go back without cringing.
- bradleyland, on 10/30/2008, -0/+4I second the CI recommendation. Cake is a bad attempt at cloning Ruby on Rails using PHP. Rails works well because of some unique features of Ruby. Translating it to PHP feels a bit like using German grammar with English language. CI feels like it was designed with PHP in mind.
- scanman20, on 10/30/2008, -5/+1EE doesn't offer versioning, file locking, or a built-in WYSIWYG editor. Some of these features are available as third-party extensions but good luck getting support.
- scanman20, on 10/31/2008, -0/+1Dugg down for highlighting the facts about EE?
- andru, on 10/30/2008, -0/+1We use ExpressionEngine to run Gear Live - it is, by far, the most amazing blog/CMS software we've every worked with, and we've used just about all of them.
- collution, on 10/30/2008, -0/+9Yea. From a coders perspective, it's much... much easier to work with. I would say wordpress has a leg up on it however when it comes to a client's perspective. Wordpress just has a more extensive admin panel (and obviously a larger community) in my opinion, but that's about it. I found EE much easier to learn as well; or at least you catch on quicker.
- jfdolier, on 10/30/2008, -1/+18I'm a WordPress guy, but that's a pretty impressive tool set. Might be time to give EE a try.
- FlankedOut, on 10/30/2008, -0/+13Is there a way to compare the database handling vs WP?
- HigherLogic, on 10/30/2008, -0/+6EE, by default, allows you to cache pages and SQL queries. It also has throttling built-in, so you can further reduce the load on your site. Most of the "core" things you would need to do with WP, are already built in to EE, so there's no need to deal with extensions and plugins to get the functionality you're looking for.
The wiki module is also pretty nice, as is the forum. I wouldn't dream of using something like Drupal, Joomla, or WP when something like EE/CI is available, it's much more organized and doesn't use anywhere near the amount of resources that Drupal/Joomla do.- lightningrod220, on 10/30/2008, -3/+1EE doesn't scale well, and doesn't handle large amounts of traffic on a normal dedicated box without a LOT of tweaking and customization. We weren't able to use MediaTemple as I would've liked, but instead were forced to use their proprietary hosting EngineHosting. While their support is slightly above par, their costs are through the roof.
Drupal/WP/Joomla have modules available to offer better, more precise levels of caching, based on your needs, rather than a one-size-fits-all solution. You can use modules that "render" the page out, or simply run a cached version from the db to cut down on the number of queries. - bjames, on 10/30/2008, -1/+1Actually EngineHosting is not proprietary, have clients there running WordPress, X-cart, OpenX, and many other scripts along with sites with EE. I generally have found in most cases Media Temple is more hype than substance as I have had bad experience getting a number of other high traffic sites using other web apps to word on MTs offers, and they are absolutely no help with anything tuning wise. EngineHosting has been great to work with.
- HigherLogic, on 10/30/2008, -0/+2EE scales very well actually, have it running on some large sites that see over 75k uniques per month, and I know of some large sites that use it too, like Magento:
http://www.magentocommerce.com
The whole thing isn't done in EE, but most of the site, including the forum, is. I think the problem is you were using MediaTemple. - bjames, on 10/30/2008, -0/+1Or sites like www.ilounge.com, or www.bmi.com, or www.paidcontent.org which all see a LOT of traffic.
- andru, on 11/03/2008, -0/+1lightningrod - maybe you just aren't using it to the best of its abilities. We get well over 1 million uniques a month, running on ExpressionEngine. We use caching to optimize. That's it.
And who "forced" you into using EngineHosting? Your only two choices were that or MediaTemple? We use Rackspace, everything is fine on our end.
- lightningrod220, on 10/30/2008, -3/+1EE doesn't scale well, and doesn't handle large amounts of traffic on a normal dedicated box without a LOT of tweaking and customization. We weren't able to use MediaTemple as I would've liked, but instead were forced to use their proprietary hosting EngineHosting. While their support is slightly above par, their costs are through the roof.
- HigherLogic, on 10/30/2008, -0/+6EE, by default, allows you to cache pages and SQL queries. It also has throttling built-in, so you can further reduce the load on your site. Most of the "core" things you would need to do with WP, are already built in to EE, so there's no need to deal with extensions and plugins to get the functionality you're looking for.
- Ricochetbiscuit, on 10/30/2008, -1/+11interesting... I have to digg into WP more.
- BeShirtHappy, on 10/30/2008, -1/+10Sounds like it's worth checking out... Thanks!
- nichesiteexpert, on 10/30/2008, -0/+9Haven't tried it yet, but I will check it out... work mostly with WP and Drupal...
- rleejr, on 10/30/2008, -3/+1Will Check it out
- DigSomeMore, on 10/30/2008, -3/+10Tried EE, there is a learning curve, for some reason i started with EE then went to WP...go figure
- RicardoWilliams, on 10/30/2008, -3/+1yeah
- MtheoryX, on 10/30/2008, -0/+5If all you want is a blog, go with WP.
But if you want a true CMS, choose EE or Drupal, and don't try to finagle WordPress to do things it's not good at.
* Edit: I've used all three, so I'm just offering an opinion based on my personal experience with each.
- lekahe, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3Maybe I could get my task started now, I have been putting it off for too long.
- ivencente, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3important resource since everyone knows wordpress rules and blogger is for spammers.
- gregkr, on 10/30/2008, -2/+3Good tip. Will look into it more.
- acroyear2, on 10/30/2008, -4/+3If this is between WP and Drupal, then we've got something here.
- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -2/+3What do you mean, between? It beats both of them, hands down. It's just about the most flexible mid-range CMS you're likely to encounter.
- benologist, on 10/30/2008, -7/+2So many great comments. Will read them all again. A++
- HigherLogic, on 10/30/2008, -0/+1This is Digg, not eBay.
- zionKing, on 10/30/2008, -3/+5Ellis Labs should keep their about releasing EE 2.0 by the end of summer. Here we are beyond that deadline and no word.
- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3Actually, there was a lot of word, you just seem to have missed the memo: http://expressionengine.com/blog/entry/expressione ...
Bottom line: better a delay than a half-baked rush job. Which is perfectly fine with me. Oh, and it's EllisLab (no plural, no space).
- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3Actually, there was a lot of word, you just seem to have missed the memo: http://expressionengine.com/blog/entry/expressione ...
- bigtimslim, on 10/30/2008, -0/+8EllisLab is great. I am a CodeIgnitor user myself
- zonk3r, on 10/30/2008, -1/+4I've used Pmachine for years (the precursor to EE). I own a license to EE but haven't ever upgraded to EE because of the time/effort (I'm lazy and there is a lot to convert) to upgrade my site to EE. It's a great piece of software and worth the money IMHO.
- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -0/+2Believe me, you're missing out. It's kinda like saying Win95 is good enough for me :-P
- frogman54, on 10/30/2008, -4/+5So this is better than notepad?
- apersaud, on 10/30/2008, -0/+9While I prefer Wordpress (due to the large community and plugins, and it's free) over EE, I am a huge fan of the open source CodeIgniter PHP framework that powers it. It is fast, flexible, intuitive and VERY well documented. Everyone who is a PHP developer should give it a try (so hopefully the community can grow).
http://codeigniter.com/- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+1EE has a very large and active community. And while its true that WP has more plugins, their quality varies greatly and EE comes with a lot of features out of the box that require a plugin for WP. Definitely give it a try, there's a free (as in beer, for non-commercial purposes) Core version to get your feet wet.
- MtheoryX, on 10/30/2008, -3/+1Lets be fair on this:
"EE comes with a lot of features out of the box that require a plugin for WP."
That goes both ways. EE Core (free) version does not support multiple users. You need a paid upgrade and module for that.
The cost, plugins, and themes are the biggest benefit to WP. And that is going to result in the vast majority of people choosing WP for quite some time to come.
I've used both, but if you just want a blog, go with WP; it's much easier, costs less, and have vast support from the WP community of users and developers. - ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -0/+2Actually, EE Core does support multiple users just fine. It's just that their is no frontend support (since the member module needed for that is only part of the paid-for version), so they all need to login via the backend, but that's it.
"Cost" is a relative advantage, of course. Quite often people forget to factor in the cost of their own time...
- MtheoryX, on 10/30/2008, -3/+1Lets be fair on this:
- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+1EE has a very large and active community. And while its true that WP has more plugins, their quality varies greatly and EE comes with a lot of features out of the box that require a plugin for WP. Definitely give it a try, there's a free (as in beer, for non-commercial purposes) Core version to get your feet wet.
- jeff777, on 10/30/2008, -3/+3I've used EE quite a bit when setting up sites for clients because one of the web design firms I worked for thought it was amazing. Personally, I think it's alright, but not worth the money if you ask me, especially if your site is mainly a blog. The blog that EE comes with is very limited compared to Wordpress, and the EE blog is nowhere near as flexible in terms of customizing and adding mods. And of course Wordpress is free....
- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+4> "The blog that EE comes with is very limited compared to Wordpress"
Sounds like you're doing something wrong, dude... EE is much, much more flexible. Really, the sky's the limit. Replicating WP functionality (if that's what you're after) is just the beginning.
> "and the EE blog is nowhere near as flexible in terms of customizing and adding mods."
Sorry, what? There is literally no aspect you can't customize, and you can add "mods" (plugins, extension or module) at your heart's content.- jeff777, on 10/30/2008, -2/+2There are way may mods available for Wordpress than there are for EE's blog.
Wordpress: 3,199 plugins VS. EE: 143 add-ons
That's quite a difference, especially when you take into account that Worpress out of the box has a lot more features than EE's blog out of the box (Yes, EE offers more than just a blog, but my original comment was dealing specifically with the blog aspect of EE).
Plus Wordpress has many more people working on and contributing plugins because it's free, and it's easier to use. - ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3Let me say it again: the raw plugin count is really not any indication. Of course there are more plugins for WP. That said, their quality varies wildly, and they are needed for many things that EE does out of the box. Either way, if you are oft the "quantity rules" school of thought, by all means go with WP; generally use whatever tool is appropriate.
- MtheoryX, on 10/30/2008, -2/+2@ingmar:
The point is that for a blog, WP IS the appropriate tool. - ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3Would you be surprised to learn that I beg to differ? I didn't think so :) Seriously, even for "blog-only" environments I generally use EE these days, though I can make do with the free (as in beer) EE Core in a number of cases.
- jeff777, on 10/30/2008, -2/+2There are way may mods available for Wordpress than there are for EE's blog.
- andru, on 10/30/2008, -1/+1Jeff - are you insane? If that's what you think of ExpressionEngine after getting your hands on it, then I know I'd never hire your for a job. We do things with our ExpressionEngine site (gearlive.com) that you just literally can't do with Wordpress or Moveable Type.
- jeff777, on 10/30/2008, -0/+1Maybe you didn't read my comment close enough. I said I thought it was alright, but I wouldn't waste your money on it if your site is MAINLY a blog. It's hard to argue that EE is better for a blog-specific site. That was my main point. If you want a broader website with more of a full-on CMS setup, then yes, EE is preferable.
- adorkable81, on 10/30/2008, -1/+2oh yeah, can WP do this:
{exp:query sql="SELECT * FROM members" pagination="bottom" limit="5"}
{user_name}: {user_email}
{pagination}{pagination_links}{/pagination}
{/exp:query}
Oh yeah, and http://topgear.com/us is built with EE, take that!!!
- ingmar, on 10/30/2008, -1/+4> "The blog that EE comes with is very limited compared to Wordpress"
- Endpoint, on 10/30/2008, -3/+2I use Wordpress for my blog, but Joomla is a great CMS which is built in PHP & is highly customisable. We've had great results using it for our work Intranet.. especially for the cost (i.e. free!).
- MtheoryX, on 10/30/2008, -0/+7My rules of thumb:
WP for a blog.
EE for a CMS.
CodeIgniter as a framework for anything custom with PHP. - Rageous, on 10/30/2008, -0/+2Some of this stuff is a bit outdated. Tome for example, was replaced by a native Pages module in 1.6.
Great list otherwise, cheers for inclusion of the Subtraction link, which I enjoyed immensely when it came out. - lightningrod220, on 10/30/2008, -5/+3DON'T DO IT! DON'T USE EXPRESSIONENGINE!
It's not as flexible as Drupal or Joomla, and has no good solutions for Drupal-like custom content types... it's either a blog post, or a blog post. No "node", no custom whateverkindofcontentyouwant, nada.
The fact that it's not open-source or backed with a growing community also hurts it. With EE, you have to hire someone if you want something custom. With Drupal or WP, you can do a search on Google, and usually find something that someone else has already put together, and it's easy to re-gear it to your needs if it's not quite where you want it. Most 3rd-party modules for EE won't work with their new version 2.0, which was supposed to have been out by now but isn't. So, wonderful, I'm going to have to rewrite (or hire my expensive developer again) for a system that will be out... I don't know when.
A good development platform has solid resources for help in completing projects, and a strong community to back it up. EE has neither. I've used EE in my day job for a year or so now, and still can't get any answers on the damn thing. If I want to Google something - syntax, how to implement something, etc. - I have better results finding things for Drupal than EE. Hell, even Cocoa/Obj-C gets better results on Google than EE. Most of the time, my answers have to be "hire the outside developer to write it, because it doesn't exist", or "we'll just use PHP in a template, then"... if it's simple enough. The one thing I appreciated about EE was the built-in $DB class, but all of the other systems have that.- MtheoryX, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3EE 2.0 will be fully based on CodeIgniter.
I'd recommend getting familiar with it as it's an outstanding MVC PHP framework anyway.
With a little practice, you shouldn't have to hire any "expensive" outside developer for PHP. If you think PHP developers are expensive, try finding .NET, Java, or Rails developers. PHP is about the cheapest thing out there because it's dead easy to learn. - seenxu, on 10/30/2008, -0/+1php is easy to learn, but hard to write good php code!
- seenxu, on 10/30/2008, -0/+1absolutely support your ideas, I just want something more open, and something has stronger user community.
- ingmar, on 10/31/2008, -0/+1It's hard to be more open, really: EE gives you access to its full, documented, unobfuscated source code, and allows you to modify it for your purposes. Oh, and the user community? Second to none. I am serious, come visit us at http://expressionengine.com/forums I have never met a more friendly, professional, helpful community online.
- MtheoryX, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3EE 2.0 will be fully based on CodeIgniter.
- bigtimslim, on 10/30/2008, -2/+1edit: bury me a g
- tzmedia, on 10/30/2008, -1/+3As a designer, EE makes sense on every level, not that it's the right tool for every project, but it just makes sense!
EE has the strongest, most upbeat positive community of professionals and freelancers of any product I've seen.
Check it out for yourself... - insighta, on 10/30/2008, -1/+0Anyone tried this cms? http://www.sitemasher.com
- neutralexistenc, on 10/31/2008, -0/+0I absolutely love EE. I used WP for many years before developing a larger site that I really needed a more robust CMS. While WP is great and definitely easier to learn and use for a simple blog, it is no match for EE when it comes to building a huge multi-faceted website. Mine has separate blogs, e commerce, resource directory, forum and members area, so EE has definitely helped me out.
There is a little bit of a learning curve before you have that "a ha" moment. - vipinho, on 11/20/2008, -0/+0I'm planning on changing to it from WP. I recommend http://eescreencasts.com for the tutorials (at least the first) and believe, you'll see how easy it is to edit a site..
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