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- xombi242, on 11/16/2008, -0/+33Kinda cool. It's like that PayPal Security gadget
- elislider, on 11/17/2008, -1/+6i like the way you compared it to paypal security even though paypal security is a ***** joke
- rwallen, on 11/17/2008, -2/+3Why is it a joke? I haven't tried it but I was thinking about getting it.
- merreborn, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3For the record, those devices were in use years before PayPal started offering them to customers.
- habbofresh, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2The actual device you're speaking of is commonly referred to as a "SecurID fob"
- elislider, on 11/17/2008, -1/+6i like the way you compared it to paypal security even though paypal security is a ***** joke
- TheDataWhore, on 11/16/2008, -10/+125This will be fun to crack.
- HouseofEl, on 11/17/2008, -3/+28No one said it wasn't possible to crack it. It will make it much more of a pain in the ass. The good thing here is that they are trying. If this is going to be so fun to crack, why don't you try working up a system that isn't.
- KibibyteBrain, on 11/17/2008, -3/+5Well, in a way, it could still be worse than the nothing we basically have now, because it leads to a false sense of security, and will probably make it much more of a pain in the ass to dispute charges in the smaller number of cases that to prop up.
- SPECOPS, on 11/18/2008, -1/+2I do not see it being worse at all. Its two factor authentication - so its like having a pin, that changes every 30 seconds. So instead of a 3 digit number on the back that can be copied, the 4 digit pin is used with a known algorithm the backend system syncs to. So, there is no false sense of security here, there are only different levels of risk. Same as any merchant who has the card to swipe, vs an internet retailer who just gets the card number and code on the back - the risk is less with the physical card. With this system, the risk will be less with the changing pin matching, then with the static 3 digit code often used.
- leerayIG88, on 11/17/2008, -8/+1whore
- jebus123, on 11/17/2008, -0/+12I can just imagine it going crack! in my wallet when I sit down.
- NothingSoldier, on 11/17/2008, -2/+1Identity thief! Identity thief! Fire him!
- TunaFishGangsta, on 11/17/2008, -0/+5Just because you hack/crack/phreak something doesn't mean you are going to steal someone's data. Some people just want to know how things work and because of them we keep striving for something that is just a little more secure.
So I applaud the cc companies and the reverse engineers.
- srturner47, on 11/16/2008, -1/+47How did they keep this thin enough to do that? Amazing.
- simonsez21, on 11/17/2008, -7/+3Photoshop....
- Dysl3xicDog, on 11/17/2008, -1/+6cocaine, just ask "The Lohan".
- username7410, on 11/17/2008, -0/+8Witchcraft
- hyAxis, on 11/17/2008, -0/+5Steve Jobs.
- silent7seven, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4Baby foreskins.
- hillkiwi, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4I would think getting the battery thin enough would be the hard part. What happens when the battery runs out?
- sudiv10, on 11/26/2008, -0/+1neat. It reminds me defcon badge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIfpauirTx0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QguC72dv9c
- AFelsinger, on 11/16/2008, -0/+8nice idea
- SHv2, on 11/17/2008, -5/+184up up down down left right left right b a start
- mst3kcrow, on 11/17/2008, -0/+61That's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage!
- Vich, on 11/17/2008, -7/+14What the Hell am I looking at?! When does this happen in the movie?!
Now! You're looking at "now," sir. Everything that happens now is happening "now."
What happened to "then?"
We passed it.
When?
Just now. We're at now "now."
Go back to "then."
When?
Now.
Now?!
Now!
I can't.
Why?
We missed it.
When?
Just now. - aflaks, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4Every luggage joke I ever hear leads me to that in one way or another.
- betheturtle, on 11/17/2008, -1/+4But how do you make money?
Merchandising!
- Vich, on 11/17/2008, -7/+14What the Hell am I looking at?! When does this happen in the movie?!
- craeyon, on 11/17/2008, -13/+3that was the code to see the princess' vagina in super mario
*sigh* - Vich, on 11/17/2008, -11/+2sounds like words from that song in Juno
"just because we use the cheats, doesn't mean we're not smart.
I don't see what anyone can see in anyone else, but you"- betheturtle, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Yes, it is those words. it's a cheat code. Now either be educated or stop watching movies that try to be smart.
- Vich, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1I'll assume that movie is disliked by many diggers.
- ActionJohnny, on 11/17/2008, -0/+7Is that the melody to funkytown?
- YoctoYotta, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2no, that tune goes ABACABB
- DemDude, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Towelie! Makes sense to find you on digg...
- Kokichi, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3everyone still knows that pressing that on the keyboard makes all comments be shown, right?
- no8286, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1HOLY crap never knew that!
- viper001, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3A B A C A B B
Try guessing what this code is ;)- toonworld, on 11/17/2008, -8/+4oh for some reason I thought you were imitating Sarah Palin reciting the alphabet... my bad! ;)
- Stochastic23, on 11/17/2008, -2/+0Perhaps, Mortal Combat.
- areber04, on 11/17/2008, -0/+0Sonic 2?
- kjax82, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3Blood code, MK for sega, baby!
- wild, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3Why guess when I know it is the Mortal Kombat blood code?
- Buzzbean, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1The name of a song by Genesis, which, by the way, was named because it was written in three parts, A, B, and C. They named it because that's the order the parts were played in.
- eyfhoerh, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2A variation on this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondo :)
- KlogereEndGrim, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1A C A B ?
- Abatrour, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2B A B A UP DOWN B A LEFT RIGHT B A START
Turtles 2. - CreedFeed, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2A1 B2 B4 C1 C5 D1 D3 E3 E5 - Dr. Wiley level in Mega Man 2 :D
- Laiden, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1While holding select. XXYBA
- suntzusputnik, on 11/17/2008, -2/+1konami code
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_code - daridave, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2ya ok cool, but "IDDQD" is still the one I've used the most. BY FAR.
- mst3kcrow, on 11/17/2008, -0/+61That's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage!
- rac1234, on 11/17/2008, -0/+41Lots of places are already doing this with a device external to the card. The innovation here seems to be integrating it onto the card itself so you don't have to carry around an additional gadget. Seems like a good idea to me.
- sm4k, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2It is a pretty good idea, except that having the two devices be separate from each other is an additional layer of protection. If you have a number generating key fob/credit card combo already, and you lose your wallet, you don't typically lose your key fob with it. That makes it harder to use the card.
With this thing--while it is certainly better than the normal cards--you're back to having one device. They get your card, they get your key generator.- rac1234, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Yeah, good point. Guess that's why I'm not a security consultant and all my PINs are 1234.
- sm4k, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2It is a pretty good idea, except that having the two devices be separate from each other is an additional layer of protection. If you have a number generating key fob/credit card combo already, and you lose your wallet, you don't typically lose your key fob with it. That makes it harder to use the card.
- vbellian, on 11/17/2008, -11/+10isn't the daily mail filled with ***** stories - cause this reeks of it!
- iSamurai, on 11/17/2008, -1/+3Yeah my ***** meter went crazy.
- eejbm, on 11/17/2008, -1/+5You better get it looked at then.
- iSamurai, on 11/17/2008, -1/+3Yeah my ***** meter went crazy.
- IndigoMoss, on 11/17/2008, -6/+29No doubt randomly generated with an algorithm, which can be hacked. Give it time.
- Murdats, on 11/17/2008, -0/+20I have no doubt this has large security holes, but I also imagine that it is still much more secure then the number being printed right there on the card and a permanent code being entered directly into what may be a scam site.
it means now having either the card physically or details of the card does not automatically mean an empty bank account as someone who has stolen the card can not use it online and someone who has got the details can use it once.
there is a chance that the card could be cracked as such but there is now less chance of that and the worst case scenario you are in the same position you would be now anyway.- IndigoMoss, on 11/17/2008, -1/+2Ohh I agree with that totally, just the way the article presents itself, it tries to make you believe that this is totally secure, nothing is going to get passed it, ect. I believe this is a step in the right direction though, I've seen way to many people get scammed online, and hopefully this will make it a bit harder for them to do such a thing.
- Murdats, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3eh mainstream media hails everything as either being the magic bullet we are all waiting for or the herald of destruction of humanity, and its always just around the corner.
- kevyn, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2as another poster said, there are already lots of devices around which use random codes... nothing has been mentioned of them being cracked yet? (correct me if I'm wrong)
- iofthestorm, on 11/17/2008, -0/+9I imagine this will work like RSA SecurID dongles. For similar reasons, it won't be (usefully) hackable. Look up how they work to see why.
- eavesdrop, on 11/17/2008, -6/+1Ive seen them, but whats the keypad for?
- Tanktunker, on 11/17/2008, -0/+7to enter the pin number.
RTFA.
- TheOneTrueGod, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1"no doubt"
Is the card too small for a quantum noise source?
- Murdats, on 11/17/2008, -0/+20I have no doubt this has large security holes, but I also imagine that it is still much more secure then the number being printed right there on the card and a permanent code being entered directly into what may be a scam site.
- crazyhorse13, on 11/17/2008, -5/+3Hmm. So if you get someone's credit card (and assuming you got the whole wallet, their bank card) you can keep trying numbers on the card until you find the correct one, and then you probably have their bank PIN as well. I mean, I seriously doubt the card locks up if you try too many wrong numbers.
- keyme, on 11/17/2008, -0/+7Yeah, but most credit card fraud isn't done by stealing cards. It's usually done by just photographing them. If the key will be truly random on every card, it won't be possible to crack it just by looking at a picture.
- tonberryqueen, on 11/17/2008, -0/+5I would hope that the person would have had the sense to cancel the card by the time the thief had gone through enough numbers to find their credit card PIN.
- wastern, on 11/17/2008, -3/+4That sounds like a huge pain in the ass
- craeyon, on 11/17/2008, -1/+6buts its more secure
what would you like loose:
a.) you entire bank balance
or
b.) couple seconds of your time?- wastern, on 11/17/2008, -1/+1Most banks won't hold you responsible for fraudulent charges. I had my bank card stolen and they were able to get money out without my pin via a cash advance, so some good the pin does. i got the money back from the bank pretty easily
If you lose the card cancel it
if someone is draining your account the bank should call you. I got a couple calls in one week when I bought my LCD TV and PS3 to make sure it was all legit - Ravatar, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1@wastern:
The point (as I see it) is that the credit card companies are reducing their risk with this new interface.
You might not have to pay the fraudulent charges, but the credit card companies are exposed to massive administration and insurance costs. Selling this to consumers as "safer for them" might work, but it's obviously not the primary goal.
- wastern, on 11/17/2008, -1/+1Most banks won't hold you responsible for fraudulent charges. I had my bank card stolen and they were able to get money out without my pin via a cash advance, so some good the pin does. i got the money back from the bank pretty easily
- craeyon, on 11/17/2008, -1/+6buts its more secure
- cuoops, on 11/17/2008, -0/+16source with a couple of videos - http://www.visaeurope.com/pressandmedia/newsreleas ...
- yugiohdan6, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3YouTube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkdCP3px24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT6JSU123Lo
- yugiohdan6, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3YouTube videos
- Micrll, on 11/17/2008, -0/+13While I think this is a good idea I am really skeptical on the current feasibleness of it. They managed to cram a Screen, keypad, circuity and a battery into a standard size credit card? While not impossible, I would bet this would be expensive. Also how long will the battery last? Additionally, how much wear will the thing take before it breaks. I have seen some merchants really grip the cards hard when they swipe them?
EDIT: I stand corrected, the poster above me found the actual press release with a promotional video showing it. And the battery lasts for 3 years.- jraymilton, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3Against my ass and in my wallet I'd give that thing about 3 days, if not 3 hours. And I don't weigh THAT much, either...Well, for a computer-geek.
- superbeefy, on 11/17/2008, -1/+1This kind of tech has been around for a while. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBS_Bank#DBS_iB_Secur ...
- mauriban, on 11/17/2008, -6/+0for me they are complicating our live first the chip and pin now this.
- eejbm, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4yeah! 3 advancements in 30 years is moving a little fast eh?
- HyperionHK, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2ya, I sure hate having my money more secure. I'd much rather just risk it and have to deal with all the hassle involved with credit card theft. Pressing a handful of numbers is so hard
- jonshipman, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1I hate having my money secure as well. That's why I always just carry all my cash around in a briefcase.
- comptonstomp, on 11/17/2008, -1/+3I hope it will withdraw from random bank accounts
- lochness, on 11/17/2008, -2/+10This was invented in Australia and sold to Visa (among others)
GO AUSSIES !!! - savocado, on 11/17/2008, -1/+29Source: Daily Mail.
To all non-UK diggers: DM is a tabloid with celebrity gossip and sh*t like that. Not really a credible source.
EDIT: The best source is VISA's press centre:
http://www.visaeurope.com/pressandmedia/newsreleas ... and
http://www.visaeurope.com/pressandmedia/newsreleas ...- kotatsu, on 11/17/2008, -2/+5That's an understatement. The Daily Hail is not any old tabloid, it's a far right wing racist rag which delights in stirring up it's ultra conservative 'readers' to demand anything they disapprove of be banned. This usually means anyone foreign but they have a particular hatred for movies and video games too.
- Pixelpaws, on 11/17/2008, -2/+4Even so, by linking to the Visa website, you corroborate the story and, by extension, provide credibility to the publication. :)
- ohreilly, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2You've forgotten that the Mail covers the important issues facing the UK, such as
what causes cancer (everything),
what reduces the risk of cancer (most things),
the celebration when house prices rise a bit,
the crisis that is when house prices drop a bit,
the European Union doing something harmless but it's ACTUALLY a master plan to remove antiquated measurements or "banning curved produce", according to them
the same for the British government, when they actually have a reasonably good idea
how "immigrants" get multi million pound houses off the government
how to win a used Toyota Prius that was once one of the staff's company cars
how cheap the Daily Mail is (when it's just gone up 5p) compared to the Express (a newspaper that is aimed at the same insane readership, and covers many of the same "issues", with more Diana)
- megablue, on 11/17/2008, -1/+4The seed is not random after all...
- zeb3dee, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3I have seen this type of technology before for single sign on. The technology seems to work for that but I worry that the numbers of my pin will rub off so people will be able to reduce the amount of numbers used in my pin from 10 to 4.
- neutronphaser, on 11/17/2008, -1/+2http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPGjeAPrLog
- HiddenForce, on 11/17/2008, -2/+6In other news...
New Digg, post, generates random extraneous, commas. - Twinnie, on 11/17/2008, -3/+1For now I think it's probably best to let the fraudsters have the money. At least they'll spend it and pump some money back into the economy.
- pe5t1lence, on 11/17/2008, -6/+2Great, now anyone watching you buy something online can watch you put your PIN in too... real genius.
- Jektal, on 11/17/2008, -0/+7How many people watch you shop online?
- ekula, on 11/17/2008, -0/+5Ceiling Cat is watching you shop online.
- Nidy1, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2And before they could get your security code and card number if they were watching you shop online. How is this worse? They could get your PIN by watching you at the store, since apparently they're always watching.
- Jektal, on 11/17/2008, -0/+7How many people watch you shop online?
- davidkeithjones, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3To Visa:
Give TWiT more money please.
KTHXBYE - encrypteduser, on 11/17/2008, -3/+2The amount of effort needed to implement this is immense. Think about all of the online retailers whose e-commerce software would be rendered useless. Think of the trust that must be granted to the new e-commerce software to be able to recognize your dynamically created security code. I wish there were technical details about how this works because I am seriously intrigued, but at the end of the day I could only dismiss this as a very hopeful concept that will never work without a major restructuring of online business.
- HyperionHK, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2I don't really know how the current systems work, but I imagine the e-commerce software queries a database held by the credit card company to check if the information is correct. In which case, nothing has to change on their end. It's the Credit Card company checking if the security code is correct, the e-commerce software just querying the CC company and getting a yes/no answer back then proceeding. Businesses aren't allowed to store these numbers currently, so the must be contacting the appropriate databases for the info
- shatters, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Perhaps not in the transaction/verification software, but in the websites themselves. How many websites validate on a 3 digit pin number? They will all have to be changed to support larger numbers with this new system. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal to make a textbox bigger, but the amount of forms that will have to be modified is significant.
- HyperionHK, on 11/17/2008, -0/+0Each website only really has to do it once though, and most sites probably do not use their own in-house created transaction systems, so they just install a patch from the provider. Even so the cost of changing on field to take more digits is so small, it would make pretty much the worst argument against this ever
- shatters, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Perhaps not in the transaction/verification software, but in the websites themselves. How many websites validate on a 3 digit pin number? They will all have to be changed to support larger numbers with this new system. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal to make a textbox bigger, but the amount of forms that will have to be modified is significant.
- IphtashuFitz, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2Systems like this have existed for decades to secure access to remote systems. I've used numerous products like RSA's SecurID (http://www.rsa.com/node.aspx?id=1156 ) at previous jobs to remotely log into servers. Some of these systems automatically generate a new PIN every minute. Some require you to enter your own PIN for it to generate the next pseudo-random PIN to use to log in. But the technology has been around and thoroughly tested & used for a very long time. It just needs to be rolled out into a more consumer facing environment like credit cards.
Upgrading actually shouldn't be all that difficult. Most e-commerce sites already ask you to enter the CVV code on the back of your credit card (typically a 3 or 4 digit number printed on the signature portion of your card, but not part of the actual card #) when using a credit card. That's supposed to ensure that you are in physical possession of the card but it's not 100% foolproof by any stretch of the imagination. The e-commerce site just sends all the credit card details including the CVV to the credit card company for verification.
If a credit card company in the US wanted to start making use of this new random PIN technology then all they'd need to do is roll out a new series of credit cards that use this keypad to generate a different CVV code each time the card is used on-line. Rather than enter the same CVV each time you would enter a new one for each purchase. As long as the credit card itself remains synchronized with the banks computers then the bank will recognize the CVV and authorize the transaction.
- HyperionHK, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2I don't really know how the current systems work, but I imagine the e-commerce software queries a database held by the credit card company to check if the information is correct. In which case, nothing has to change on their end. It's the Credit Card company checking if the security code is correct, the e-commerce software just querying the CC company and getting a yes/no answer back then proceeding. Businesses aren't allowed to store these numbers currently, so the must be contacting the appropriate databases for the info
- Pinasco, on 11/17/2008, -3/+1This was in my computer science book 5 years ago. Old news.
- mohtasham, on 11/17/2008, -3/+1I received such card from bank of america 3 months ago. Is it supposed to be new?
- abadjay, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3i wonder how well this will hold up when you get launched in a pool by your ***** friends at some drunk summer party. probably about as well as your cell phone.
- bhuntsbarger, on 11/17/2008, -2/+1I totally saw this on 3-2-1 Contact, this isnt new...
- Buzzbean, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1I already do with using Citicards only without the digital card and only online. I log onto their web site, request a new virtual number and submit that along with the expiration date and verification code created for this number into the online merchant's web site. From the site's perspective, it's just another credit card number. They verify it through the bank and it's treated like every other cc transaction. The number is good until either the expiration date, the limit you requested for the virtual card is reached or it is used the specified number of times.
- DiggMasterJ, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2How do you change the batteries? Maybe it comes with a wall charger :)
- wolfing, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1it would be perfect if it had a fart charger
- daGUY, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Cool idea. I use a keyfob to access my work's VPN, which works much the same way - it generates a random number every 60 seconds, and you append that to your password in order to connect.
- enantiodromia, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2SecureID for teh masses
- TOMHTML, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1RANDOMNESS,
You can never be sure.
http://tinyurl.com/5mxtrl - koolto, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Last week I got one of those little pin generators (e-token) from HSBC to use Pc-Banking
https://www.pcbanking2g.hsbc.com.ar/1/2/p2g_hbar_i ... - LR2_, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Who cares if it is crackable. The longer it takes for a thief to use it the more time the victim has to cancel the card when they find it missing.
- republicker, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2They are making sure they are the only ones ***** the customer.
- falser, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1Sorry, I can't type in my password, I have Credit Card Thumb.
- UselessTrivia, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1XYZZY
- trougnouf, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Why is there scissors marks around the screen? Can someone simply cut and steal it and see the randomly generated number anywhere?
- cgbspender, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Random?
- pjkid1, on 12/01/2008, -0/+0This sounds like a great idea; I hope more companies, credit card or otherwise, take the security of our personal information seriously. The new “keypad” idea sounds more secure but what happens if someone 20 feet away has a reader which can take the card’s pin right under our noses, which they can use later?! Overall, I’m excited about new technologies!
- MichaelDavid007, on 01/05/2009, -0/+0Well deserved. This card is going to make huge leaps, because credit card fraud is still relevant and people security concerns will need to continually be addressed. Hopefully, this card will make strives in protecting card holders and reducing fraud.
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