Digg - Manufacturer accused of knowingly selling faulty grenades

100 Comments
Who Dugg It?

Dinsdale77, on 11/17/2008, -0/+56It won't take much to convince me that getting a limb blown off totally sucks ass.
- ZenFu, on 11/18/2008, -0/+12If this story is true, the company should INSTANTLY have their military contract revoked. Somebody must have known about this and kept quiet to save a few bucks. In which case, it amounts to nothing less than treason as they're knowingly supplying the military with arms designed to work against them (essentially benefiting the enemy).
  
  It's bad enough we send our men and women into situations where they literally put their life on the line for pay that amounts to about minimum wage, the last thing we need to do is instill fear and doubt in them about the quality of their own weaponry (and in turn, their COs for auth'ing issue, the DOD for signing contracts and the gov't for jumping into bed with said company).
  
  Granted, *****-ups occur on the battlefield. Radios stop working, guns jam and artillery can be disabled by the enemy. That's to be expected. Soldiers should NOT have to be put in a situation where they need to clear a house and wonder, "will this flashbang work in my favor or severely incapacitate (read:kill when the enemy works out what's happened) my team when i pull the pin?"
  
  Doesn't matter if the faulty grenades were tagged, bagged and then reissued to the FBI. End of the day, they're faulty...and if someone who could've prevented this knew about the problem but didn't speak up, the company should pay for it.
  - ChrisOrr, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1They probably were known faulty by the military, the company, perhaps even a regulatory organization, but given to the soldiers anyway because they don't give a ***** about soldiers.
- cowsgonemadd3, on 11/18/2008, -3/+1Sucks donkey?
Darren07, on 11/17/2008, -8/+22Pics or it didn't happen.

Oh, wait.
wingedkat, on 11/17/2008, -0/+17I wonder, is it just that this is a "non-lethal" grenade so they thought it wouldn't matter?
- MeatyMcBeef, on 11/18/2008, -0/+4It's one thing to sell a faulty garden hose...but when you're selling faulty grenades...
- OrangeTide, on 11/18/2008, -0/+4if a "non-lethal" waterheater explodes and injures someone, you can expect a very costly lawsuit to follow.
kangy3213, on 11/18/2008, -2/+13That Blows, I mean, no it doesn't.
- cowsgonemadd3, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1I think it goes boom.
binchaud, on 11/18/2008, -12/+11I accidentally the whole grenade.
Autodidaddict, on 11/18/2008, -8/+4Slightly misleading title, not hand grenades but flash bombs - still an interesting story - lock those assholes at PSI up
- kakwakas, on 11/18/2008, -0/+9Also known as flash grenades.
- Autodidaddict, on 11/18/2008, -1/+2Read all the comments below and you will see people misinterpreting the headline as hand grenades
  
  And yes, they may be called "flash grenades" but that's all semantics - the omission of the word "flash" was probably intentional to make the article seem more dramatic.
oSiK, on 11/18/2008, -15/+6There shouldn't be a need for grenades in the first place.
Bring our troops home.
- Autodidaddict, on 11/18/2008, -2/+9RTFA
Rizmaster, on 11/18/2008, -0/+17"I'm just like Oskar Schindler! We both sold shell to the nazis, the difference was mine WORKED!"
Hobbes24, on 11/18/2008, -1/+45you know...there are VERY FEW standards for making a ***** grenade

1. not blow up until you pull pin
2. wait a few seconds to blow up after you pull pin
3. blow up

how could they not realize they missed one?
- Autodidaddict, on 11/18/2008, -13/+0RTFA - they were flash bombs not hand grenades
  - kakwakas, on 11/18/2008, -0/+18The concept is the exact same.
- canadianxj, on 11/18/2008, -0/+10I'd say they missed two of those steps.....
- doublefelix, on 11/18/2008, -0/+17They went straight to:
  
  4.) profit
- commenter01, on 11/18/2008, -0/+7and now:
  5) Jail time.
  Followed closely by:
  6) Anal rape.
  
  damnit. it's probably a white collar prison.
  - LordBacon, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2I take 6. all the day :P
  - ABlueflame, on 11/18/2008, -0/+0They disabled Club Fed a few years back, white collar criminals now go to the same type of prisons everyone else does.
- OrangeTide, on 11/18/2008, -0/+5they had all of those steps, they just made a few with them in a different order.
- tobymikle, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Your method would in fact make a faulty grenade. Pulling the pin does not make it explode, Releasing the handle after pulling the pin does. so
  
  1. Hold the handle
  2. pull the pin
  3. throw the grenade, thus releasing the handle
  4. Delay (this is where your delay comes in)
  5. Explode
AlexJTanner, on 11/18/2008, -10/+14so I have a question. If flash grenades do such damage and we cry out when they blow up in the FBI's hands, why don't we cry out when the FBI throws them at people?
- comptonstomp, on 11/18/2008, -4/+15most of the time they don't go around throwing them at innocent people
  - asdfrewq, on 11/18/2008, -1/+7MOST of the time?
  - mvlazysusan, on 11/18/2008, -1/+1why did thay let the convicts out in the first place ?
    ,,,thay weren't convicted by a jury of there pears?
    are you guilty before a trial?
- kakwakas, on 11/18/2008, -1/+22Well, for one thing, you usually just throw them in the same room as your target, as opposed to strapping them to your target and making them go off.
  - CalmLlama, on 11/18/2008, -3/+1what if it lands on someone's foot? Or in their lap? I have absolutely no sympathy for those agents.
- mustang460, on 11/18/2008, -3/+15Because they have an extremely small blast radius, and unless the FBI is duct taping them to innocent people before blowing them, there is really no reason to get upset.
- devilclown, on 11/18/2008, -0/+5Your question made me google this, apparently Flash-Bang induced heart attacks and fires are common, no actual body parts blown off. Problems arise when they use these at the wrong address:
  http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/88822
- Wakkyweed, on 11/18/2008, -0/+9An old boss of mine had his house raided by the DEA, and they threw flash grenades through his front and back windows. They then threw him on the floor and cuffed him, and dragged his 60 year old mother out of the shower and cuffed her too. The flash grenades left big burn marks on the carpet.
  
  It turned out later that the drug dealer they were after was living next door.
  - mst3kcrow, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2There should be a lawsuit with damages filed and particular officers ***** canned. Sadly, I am assuming it wasn't done because the lawyer said the DEA would have won.
  - Wakkyweed, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1He got some sort of settlement, but not a very big one. Suing the DEA is pretty much pointless.
  - Wakkyweed, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Ah, I found a reference to the original episode in the Tucson Weekly:
    
    Case in point: Police made a major blunder when they raided the home of Mary Gekas and her family in the summer of 1993, while tracking a drug dealer who actually lived next door. A prominent local business family, the Gekas clan had deep enough pockets to give the department hell. The result? An $82,000 reward to the family for "severe personal injuries" and "substantial emotional trauma."
- OrangeTide, on 11/18/2008, -1/+2tear gas isn't supposed to harm people either. but when they fill a building full of the stuff in Waco, TX and it caught fire lots of people died.
- passedoutghost, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1The HRT doesn't not have any sympathy for kidnappers and people who commit federal crimes. They're lucky that they don't shoot them on sight, but attempt to arrest them.
- AlexJTanner, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2I would like to remind you dumbasses of a little idea we have here in America. An idea that I think makes us a little bit better than other places. It's called "Innocent until proven guilty." So yes the FBI is throwing these things at innocent people.
Kaboom108, on 11/18/2008, -1/+26Isn't knowingly providing our troops with defective weapons treason?
- thegrantman, on 11/18/2008, -0/+10No,just business as usual.
- xen271, on 11/18/2008, -0/+3Nope. Just business. The life of a servicemember is worth less than a prisoner. I don't remember any prisoner being ordered to run in front of a machine gun.
- palehorse864, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1They typically order the soldiers to run NOT in front of the machine gun and use walls and the like for cover. The guys on the other side like to point the machine gun at them though when they run.
- maz2331, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1No, just fraud.
  - palehorse864, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Great taste, less filling!
comptonstomp, on 11/18/2008, -2/+8ah its just a flashbang you pussies rub some dirt on it
nodemocracyinus, on 11/18/2008, -7/+8made in usa. lol americans are now worse than chinese.
- 1C751, on 11/18/2008, -0/+8
  - LordBacon, on 11/18/2008, -1/+3No... but the ammunition "only" cause some type of cancer ....
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome
brandita, on 11/18/2008, -0/+7Hope that doesn't blow up in their face.
spriggig, on 11/18/2008, -1/+1If true, I know what the sentence should be.
R314, on 11/18/2008, -0/+8Old JP Morgan made a pretty penny during the Civil War selling defective second-hand rifles to the Army, which were responsible for blowing off soldiers' thumbs.
oneredeye, on 11/18/2008, -2/+5Headline is misleading. Grenades are loads more dangerous than flashbangs.
GamerVer05, on 11/18/2008, -3/+1But, according to the indictment, many of the defective grenades the military was using were relabeled and then sold to the FBI and other local law enforcement agencies.

was using? Donde esta el editor?
shroommi, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1I feel that knowingly endangering soldiers and law enforcement officials goes as far as being treasonous.
doublefelix, on 11/18/2008, -2/+6Take the Surgeon Generals advice on this one, a flash bang is NOT a safe replacement for a flesh light.
thesandbender, on 11/18/2008, -10/+21. A flash bang *IS NOT* a grenade. If a grenade went off the man and everyone in his car would be dead.

2. Devices like this don't just *go off*. The fuses have been been perfected since World War I and have seen salt water landings in Normandy and Japan... the cold of Korea and air drops all over Europe and the swamps/marshes of Vietnam. They're specifically designed not to *just go off". In most devices like this they can't ignite unless the striker hits the primer and the striker is physically secured by a pin which has to be *yanked* out... with force.

If grenades or flash bangs just "went off"... no one in the military would carry them.
- z95headhunter, on 11/18/2008, -0/+10No *****, thats why it says FAULTY grenades.
- Ismith988, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1rtfa
AlienMushroom, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1We should give them a chance to experience it.
gcnaddict, on 11/18/2008, -1/+1No, there's definitely one more guy who knows what it's like.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/DeGreatSaiya ...
Wakkyweed, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2He tried calling for an ambulance, but the hospital thought he was just doing a Jerky Boys routine.

"Really, I'll tell ya I don't even see fingers, but maybe it's just because I'm all numb and stingey"
theFetus, on 11/18/2008, -1/+1who else thinks he deserves one of their hands?
pennvneff, on 11/18/2008, -0/+7Your equipment is made by the lowest bidder.
godphase3, on 11/18/2008, -1/+8Things like this make me so angry, and frightened at the same time. I'm in a line of work where I have to depend on my equipment, and my life is on the line. I hate knowing that there are companies that would put people in such danger knowingly, and fear that the same could happen to me.
- mst3kcrow, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Watch the documentary entitled: "The Corporation".
Rizmaster, on 11/18/2008, -2/+5Come on guys, it's obvious the war profiteers in this country don't CARE if the weapons work or not, so long as they have a contract to sell them. And I'm sure the current ***** in chief will make sure his buddies stay gainfully employed with our Government at least until January, and probably makes sure they get a contract to stay employed in the meanwhile.

It's just like ED-209.
- OrangeTide, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1we should just give these businesses money if they promise not to make any weapons. then at least they can profiteer and our soldiers don't have to get hurt.
neozeed, on 11/18/2008, -7/+3Gee oppressor gets hand blown off from device to kill civilians.

I'll keep on crying those crocodile tears.
- OrangeTide, on 11/18/2008, -1/+3it's not for killing. RTFA.
  
  and thinking that anyone getting their hand blown off is fair just shows your lack of humanity.
  - neozeed, on 11/18/2008, -2/+1Yeah that's why it blew the guys arm off.
    
    And thinking that he's there to help me is a ***** joke.
    
    ***** him.
  - OrangeTide, on 11/22/2008, -0/+1@neozeed
    And ***** you, too. You're a piece of *****. Why don't you blame the assholes in charge of our massive failure that is called a foreign policy. I guess it's because you'd rather blame the grunts who end up in the military because they are not as privileged as you, or because they have some sort of patroitism (possibly misguided) that you do not personally agree with.
    
    You're either a troll or a piece of garbage that enjoys showing "your lack of humanity" as I mentioned before.
- ZenFu, on 11/18/2008, -1/+4Ssh. You hear that neo? That's me playing the world's smallest violin for you.
  
  There, now shut the ***** up. Your opinion is not relevant here. Why? Because almost every political comment you've made on digg is a negative, whiny piece of ***** that has instantly made want to start repeatedly punching you after i've read it.
tellyousomeday, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1A real life All My Sons.
CalmLlama, on 11/18/2008, -1/+5So a bunch of FBI agents experienced part of what they put normal Americans through EVERY DAY and they bitch + sue about it.. Does this mean those people in prison who have been injured by flash bangs get to sue the FBI for using them now?
Ruger11mcrdpi, on 11/18/2008, -0/+9Answers and suggestions for this. (from experience)
1) These are flash bang grenades. They are designed to stun people with a loud bang, and a bright flash, not injure.
2) This type of grenade was supposed to have been recalled two years ago. I know this because I had them in Iraq (I'm a Marine Infantryman) And the incident happened where one went off accidentally. We had ours IMMEDIATELY removed and were soon given a newer, safer model.
3) These faulty ones have a soft foil outside them, and the metal top can separate in the explosion and injure someone. Also the heads can separate if the grenade is bent or sat on, etc. They are just a weak design, cheap and poorly made.
4) The new grenades have a solid metal body with holes in them. Also, they have TWO safety pins, they are damn near impossible to screw up, and they are rugged as hell. (Carried and used these for several months in Iraq)
5) This police officer's unit obviously failed to check what was out there, see if recalls were made on their grenades, or buy the best ones available. They are definitely to blame for issuing cheap, faulty gear.
6)On a final note: If this guy had it on his back, and just had the spoon clipped to his gear, then that is a total safety violation and can EASILY result in an accidental explosion. I have seen Soldiers, Marines and Police officers carry them this way because "It looks cool" or they don't have a correct pouch... It results in the grenade being hung by the very mechanism that if released, causes it to explode! Not smart. In this case it would be his fault and the fault of whoever checked his gear.

Lastly, and this is just a minor point... If the guy hadn't had the stupid thing strapped to his back, it might not have gone off either. It may easily have snagged on the seat and detonated. He should have had it secured in a pouch on the front of his vest. And yes I know why some guys put them on their backs, so the #2 man in a stack can throw them. I also know this is a poor excuse because you end up carrying a weapon that you yourself cannot reach or use.
- maz2331, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2Add one more point....
  
  6. These grenades were designed and developed by the U.S. Navy, with manufacture contracted out to the company. The faulty design was discovered after several years of production.
  
  Still, after discovering the flaw, they should have absolutely issued a recall and destroyed any existing inventory, or applied a retrofit if possible to make them safe.
  
  This does look like something that should be handled as a routine product liability civil case, not as a felony Federal criminal prosecution. Maybe the fact that it blew up on an FBI agent has something to do with that?
  - Ruger11mcrdpi, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2Good point there. On a side note too, those original grenades really weren't THAT unsafe unless the user mishandled then or didn't store them properly. I've carried them for over a year and thrown probably 12-15 and never had an issue. I saw one break its top off but honestly the guy that had his break, he kept them in a big pouch, 2-3 together where they could get squashed, instead of a single pouch.
    
    That said, we do need more robust flashbangs than that, I shouldn't have to worry that much about a flashbang when I'm in combat. The new ones totally kick ass and are safer than our Frag M67 Grenades.
ASSASSYN360, on 11/18/2008, -2/+1"lost his hand when a stun grenade went off without warning."

Since when was there a warning when a grenade was about to explode?
- stupidfilters, on 11/18/2008, -1/+0The pin flying off? The fault was never specified.
- purpledoc, on 11/18/2008, -1/+2When you see it next to you without its pin attached.
baralo, on 11/18/2008, -0/+4The Military and FBI are the last people I'd try to scam.
ro2ert, on 11/18/2008, -1/+3You know, I have absolutely no sympathy for the FBI agent in the story. In Miami a few years ago, at a peaceful protest against the FTAA I got to be the victim of several flash bang grenades. One exploded about a foot fro my head. Deafening, frightening but not nearly as deadly as the other things the police, FBI and secret service hurled. Shot at a distance of ten foot with a 12 gauge shot gun, loaded with a solid slug of ABS plastic in the back of my knee I couldn't walk for a day, my knee swelling up to the size of a grapefruit.

My crime, supporting the US Steelworkers in their march against globalization. Pretty radical those retired union members.

So, when a big, strong FBI agent in full riot gear has night mares because he had a little flash bang grenade I say send him to Iraq to train the Iraqis, lets see how his nightmares go then.
- neozeed, on 11/18/2008, -2/+2Amen.
- ChrisOrr, on 11/18/2008, -1/+1yep, they deserve a flashbang in the hand at least. Maybe for once they get to see what it feels like. Maybe hell rethink his policies on using these weapons against INNOCENT AMERICANS.
- OrangeTide, on 11/22/2008, -0/+1Yea. the should go back to using bullets to suppress riots like in the old days.
  
  Maybe you should go after the people giving the (unconsitutional) orders to the FBI and police departments around the US. Instead of hoping field agents get injured.
  
  Your attitude just seems so childish.
rmeddy, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1Oh Greed.
palehorse864, on 11/18/2008, -0/+3Can someone point out in the article where it says "Wagner still cries about the experience" It's in the description but not in the article.
- mst3kcrow, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1It's in the video in the story entitled "Watch soldier describe losing his hand from flash bang" at 1:52/4:23.
  - palehorse864, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2Thanks. And awesome name btw.
TinababyK, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1I won't buy any grenades from them.
Kamioni, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1He must have gotten the grenade from the same guy Counter-Strike gets it from.
MsArtGeek, on 11/19/2008, -0/+1I bet their workman's comp premiums are sky-high.
moulin1, on 11/19/2008, -0/+1"I don't know how someone looks themselves in the mirror every day in light of the kind of things that have happened here" . The FBI agents just aren't putting two and two together. Until they realize that the PSI execs are no different from the criminals they were staking out. The fact that they wear a suit and tie and carry business cards doesn't make them "rule breakers" instead of "criminals". They will probably never serve a day in jail and on the off chance they do it will be in a luxury facility. As long as we have two standards of justice and two classes of criminal there will be no deterent to crimes like this.
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Manufacturer accused of knowingly selling faulty grenades

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